Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Kupplung, Getriebe, Achsen, Allradantriebe, Zapfwelle
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no.falcon
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 24. September 2023, 13:40

Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von no.falcon »

Trying to fix the PTO lever on my Falcon 50, I opened the transmission and found a loose locking ring on the axle driving the hydraulic pump. I think it's part 40 (2.1419.004.1) on the included parts drawing, and is supposed to sit in front of that bearing in the rear? There already is a ring in the front.

The ring is pretty damaged, does it lock onto the axle or sit in the housing? Can I simply hit the bearing to move it further back and see more..?

Do you have any pointers on gently removing and reassembling the axle, if necessary? Even after removing both nuts (2x 46) and locking rings (2x 43 and 63), I'm afraid I'll probably break the bearings trying to pull it out.
ring.jpg
rear.jpg
parts_drawing.jpg
front.jpg
Kurt_TigerSix105
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Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von Kurt_TigerSix105 »

First of all Thank you for using the Sameforum.

With respect to your lock ring or circlip I have no real experience by myself.

Here the Google translate interpretation - Hier die Übersetzung mit Google translate:
Als ich versuchte, den Zapfwellenhebel an meinem Falcon 50 zu reparieren, öffnete ich das Getriebe und fand einen losen Sicherungsring an der Achse, die die Hydraulikpumpe antreibt. Ich denke, es ist Teil 40 (2.1419.004.1) auf der beigefügten Teilezeichnung und soll vor dem Lager hinten sitzen? Vorne ist bereits ein Ring.

Der Ring ist ziemlich beschädigt, rastet er auf der Achse ein oder sitzt er im Gehäuse? Kann ich einfach auf das Lager drücken, um es weiter nach hinten zu bewegen und mehr zu sehen?

Haben Sie Hinweise, wie Sie die Achse bei Bedarf vorsichtig ausbauen und wieder zusammenbauen können? Selbst nachdem ich beide Muttern (2x 46) und Sicherungsringe (2x 43 und 63) entfernt habe, befürchte ich, dass ich beim Versuch, es herauszuziehen, wahrscheinlich die Lager zerbrechen werde.

Falls jemand die Fragen beantworten kann aber kein Englisch schreibt oder spricht, bitte in Deutsch antworten. Dankeschön schon jetzt dafür.
Viele Gruesse
Kurt

"Bei 99% aller Probleme ist die umfassende Beschreibung des Problems bereits mehr als die Hälfte der Lösung desselben."
no.falcon
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 24. September 2023, 13:40

Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von no.falcon »

Thanks for adding a translation, Kurt!

Answers in German are also welcome, yes. Ich kann ein bisschen verstehen, and there's google translate for the rest. ;)

I probably should have said something about the language in my post. I didn't want to just post an auto translation without a human looking at it. My English probably has some issues as well, since I don't really know the proper terminology for engine/machine parts in any language. Axle should probably be "shaft", for instance.
Kurt_TigerSix105
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Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von Kurt_TigerSix105 »

Do not worry about the languages. I did completely understand your request. It is a pitty that I do not have a glue about the solution due to the fact that I simply lack experience for this particular Same Falcon 50 DT.
This should be similar/equally to Corsaro 70, Saturno 80 and Minitauro/Minitaurus 60.
I hope that you will get posted solutions a.s.a.p.
Viele Gruesse
Kurt

"Bei 99% aller Probleme ist die umfassende Beschreibung des Problems bereits mehr als die Hälfte der Lösung desselben."
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Andreas83
Beiträge: 429
Registriert: 28. Juli 2018, 14:33

Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von Andreas83 »

Hey,
are you from Norway?? Where is the bearing nr. 39?? I can't see it in the photos above?
The locker ring in the first picture seems to belong to the bearing in the last picture. There ist a small notch straight ahead the bearing. What problem do you have with your pto/hydraulic pump.

Greeetings Andreas
no.falcon
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 24. September 2023, 13:40

Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von no.falcon »

Hi Andreas! Yes, I'm Norwegian.

The ring has settled on an empty part of the shaft, it's just a hole in the housing. You can see bearing 39 in the back, and close up in picture 2. There is indeed a gap between the bearing and shaft in front, but you can also see part of a locking ring poking out of the shade near the bottom.

There are roughly 2 mm left of the housing/hole behind bearing 39 before it opens up into the next compartment. I can't see a ridge or stopper. Since there's only one circlip in the parts diagram, I guess the hole narrows towards the rear and that the bearing goes in from the front? Or it's already touching the ridge.

Could this be a locking ring that just sits on the shaft, not in a groove? Would attaching the bearing to the shaft with something like Loctite 603 be an ok fix? Or can I just assume that the bearing has rusted stuck and won't move, even without a circlip, and even if I doused the area in rust remover preparing to dismantle the shaft..? Since the locking ring came off, it wasn't that great in the first place, and now it's probably even worse. Would I glue that in place as well, or just cut and remove?

The hydraulics are fine, I'm just wondering what to do with this ring/bearing situation.

I opened the gearbox since my PTO lever wasn't aligned properly, going into gear in some random place and the PTO was slipping out of gear under load. I loosened the lever, pulled it out of the gearbox to disengage from the gear selector sleeve/muff and moved the lever/sleeve back and forth until they lined up correctly (by feel and spinning the PTO by hand). It now hits both gears and spins freely in the middle.

The bracket holding the PTO lever in place (part 28) was actually broken in half by the bolt hole, but still seemed to hold the lever in place. That's 4 mm thick steel. I wasn't able to check the internal parts for damage. I can't really see anything down there, and would rather not pick everything apart. If I need to replace parts, I guess I'll notice soon enough.
pto_lever.jpg
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Andreas83
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Registriert: 28. Juli 2018, 14:33

Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von Andreas83 »

First,
you should read the parts list correct!. You write that there is only one locker ring part 40 printed in the diagram. Do you got a parts list? Normaly there is a diagram on the one side of the list and on the other side is the parts list with part numbers and quantity of the part. Not all parts are printed correctly - because the printing is often mad. Always use the parts list to ensure how many parts/bearings/locker rings are used.
If there is only 1 locker ring listet with parts number - then there is only one. If there are more - then not all are printed. I don't have a part list for the tractor and online you wont get the quantiy.

I would align the first gears on the axle to ensure the correct axle position. After that you should see - if there ist any notch, any bearing displaced... . You should also bring the bearings in correct position - fitting to the housing and locker rings. You can remove the locker ring - but if that is a missing part - the outcome can become worse. You can also glue in the bearings - but i am not a fan of that method - to secure the parts without any mechanical work.

By the way - there is a missing locker ring in the second picture i think. The bearing could come out of the housing - because there is no locker ring or diameter reduce of the axle. That is not normal. Could the bearing be moved further in the housing or did the axle could come out - so you can't see a notch?

Greetings Andreas
no.falcon
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 24. September 2023, 13:40

Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von no.falcon »

Checking the qty in the parts list is a nice tip, thank you. The diagram seems to match the list pretty well in this case.

I was able to look at the gear box of a Minitauro 60 today, and this looks similar enough to confirm that the ring locks to the shaft, there is no groove for it. The shaft could be slightly out of place, as seen by the gap between the axle and front bearing in the 4th picture above, but it's not that bad, and the rear bearing (picture 2) sits where it should.

This is the Minitauro 60:
PXL_20230929_113506656.jpg
I managed to move my ring up to the bearing like this, but doubt it will stay in place since it's damaged and since it already came loose once. Suggestions on lasting fixes are welcome.
Kurt_TigerSix105
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Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von Kurt_TigerSix105 »

Hello,

if you feel the current circlip is damaged too much, then as per my opinion the solution should be to replace this part.
Either you disassembly the gear and that will enable you to move the shaft a little bit, so that you will be able to disassembly the ball bearing and you may replace the circlip.

If this does not work, the big solution might be to depart the enginge from the gear box and move the shaft.

But having said that, I am not familiar with this type of Same, so if I have written non-sense, please let me know.
Viele Gruesse
Kurt

"Bei 99% aller Probleme ist die umfassende Beschreibung des Problems bereits mehr als die Hälfte der Lösung desselben."
Kurt_TigerSix105
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Re: Loose locking ring on hydraulic axle

Beitrag von Kurt_TigerSix105 »

As the whole spare parts list was too big to be posted here, please find attached the relevant pages.
No.falcon.pdf
(1.05 MiB) 21-mal heruntergeladen
Viele Gruesse
Kurt

"Bei 99% aller Probleme ist die umfassende Beschreibung des Problems bereits mehr als die Hälfte der Lösung desselben."
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